Curse

Dzjudz · Nov 29, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

WoF, the Para and the Ele aren't really worth it. Certainly I'd alter the Ele's build.
And the lack of Prot Spirit and Splinter Weapon is troubling.

Yeah just switch the ele from SF to ER

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Xenomortis · Nov 29, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Yeah just switch the ele from SF to ER

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Nah, you don't need that much defense.
Just replacing the two monk skills on the MM to Prot Spirit and Aegis would be enough - but energy will be tight with Bone Fiends; better to take Minions and Death Nova over Putrid.

If I was to use an Ele for damage, I'd be more tempted by Dual Attunements on stuff like Rodgort's, rather than DoT stuff or Searing Flames (heroes aren't great with SF). Maybe even an Invoke Lightning build. Whilst doing that, you can slot stuff like Healing Breeze, Prot Spirit, Aegis or some cleaning on them if you want to (obviously only one or two of those four).

giuice · Nov 29, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

One question: SF + They're on Fire! = 33% damage reduction , this really works or worths?

Xenomortis · Nov 29, 2010, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I suspect it works a bit, but I wouldn't bother with it.

Dzjudz · Nov 30, 2010, 02:21 AM // 02:21

It works. Made a 5x SF + Para hero team with a guildie. Not very good in HM, but the dmg reduction is nice.

NerfHerder · Nov 30, 2010, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by giuice

One question: SF + They're on Fire! = 33% damage reduction , this really works or worths?

It really works, in theory. In theory SF+"ToF!"+"TNtF!" is even better at around 51% reduction. However, consider "Save Yourselves!" gives you 82.3% reduction.

It also depends on if you planned on taking a hero paragon in the first place. If your taking the paragon just for protection from "ToF!", an ER prot ele would probably be better. Just giving a hero SF probably wont give you the blanket protection you would want either. But, if your running SF(so you can prioritize where SF is placed) and have a SF caster spike teambuild or physicals way hero set up, adding a paragon with "ToF!" might be a good idea.

Dusk_ · Nov 30, 2010, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by apoggy

Will need tweaking I am 100% sure but I will try this as soon as the update is released.

(Nothing new invented)

I think you've got too much healing going on here. If you drop the N/Rt, you could bring a more dedicated Smiter and let your MM, ST and Panic heroes bring other utilities that don't scatter their attributes as much.

(Also, the ST has a lot of energy management...much more than needed)

beagle warrior · Dec 01, 2010, 12:35 AM // 00:35

nothing really original here

for when im feeling manly

Horus Moonlight · Dec 01, 2010, 12:37 AM // 00:37

More tweaking. Theorycrafting > studying.

Got rid of ToF and ele; I couldn't justify wasting 1/8+ of the team to give unreliable prot. The N/Rt's elite is optional. I only chose IV for the sake of having an elite on the bar.

Xx_Sorin_xX · Dec 01, 2010, 01:06 AM // 01:06

My rough start:

I'm not partial to the Barrager at all, but I just am not a big fan of SoGM or Ineptitude. I'll probably end up defaulting to SoGM/ST though if nothing better is presented.

Xx_Sorin_xX · Dec 01, 2010, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight

More tweaking. Theorycrafting > studying.

Big picture with the build.

Got rid of ToF and ele; I couldn't justify wasting 1/8+ of the team to give unreliable prot. The N/Rt's elite is optional. I only chose IV for the sake of having an elite on the bar.

Prot spirit, with a 10e cost and 5s recharge, would I think drain your paragon pretty fast. And it just seems awkward on a paragon.

I suggest dropping infuse condition, blood of the master, and signet of lost souls/necrosis. Replace with death nova, prot spirit, and aegis. If necromancers run low on energy, you probably need to tweak builds to be more offensive. They never have energy problems.

Add whatever suits you on the paragon. I'm terrible with paragon builds so no idea what.

Xenomortis · Dec 01, 2010, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight

More tweaking. Theorycrafting > studying.

http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/4...otemplate1.png

Got rid of ToF and ele; I couldn't justify wasting 1/8+ of the team to give unreliable prot. The N/Rt's elite is optional. I only chose IV for the sake of having an elite on the bar.

I'm bored an a little intellectual exercise never hurts, so here we go:

Player bar: Fine

P/Mo: I seriously doubt the hero can support the energy demands for that bar. Cut the monk prot, although it's a shame most paragon skills are useless.

N/Rt: The elite sucks, but you know that. I question the value of Weaken Armour and would look at Enfeebling Blood instead. Not sure on Spirit Rift, but damage is damage. A possible elite is Pain of Disenchantment, depending on your Curses spec.

Me/Rt: I think that should be fine.

Me/Mo: I question Holy Wrath. I do not know how useful this skill is and how well heroes use it. However, you have three energy management skills on this bar, one of which is elite. With only two 10 energy skills, neither spammable, this seems like overkill. I would consider changing the elite and maybe changing the char to a Monk for Divine Favour (and Smiter's Boon).

N/Mo(/X): A hero MM with Bone Minions but without Death Nova? Foul Feast is questionable when you have two copies of MBaS with spirits. Stick Prot Spirit and Aegis on this guy and cut Putrid Bile in favour of Death Nova. I'm someone who thinks you should keep BotM on a hero MM, regardless of the intent for the minions.

Rt/X: Soothing Memories is of questionable worth - energy on SoS rit heroes is fine with Siphon and it's the weakest heal on the bar. Bloodsong would be a nice addition and possibly a second copy of Splinter Weapon. This template is also a candidate for a res if you think you can spare the room.

Mo/Me: Pretty much fine, although I would look for inherenet energy management rather than speccing into Inspiration (so you're not cutting DF too much). This is unfortunatly rather limited - Castigation Signet is all I can think of off the top of my head. With high DF I'd also be tempted by Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight.
The elite on this bar is somewhat variable - hero use of RoJ is far from perfect and it's not important damage. RoJ is certainly quite an energy drain - you'll need to experiment a little here.

Some more general things:

The Paragon stands out to me as the weakest bar - if you really want to a Para for the support (GftE, Envy, Fallback) then you're going to need to scrounge for some useful skills. Hex removal and attack skills are all that come to mind.
Alternatively cut the hero and opt for something else. A second Rit (Communing Spirits) is a strong choice or simply an Ele with some damage and support (healing, prot or maybe even some of the energy based paragon skills you want).

You've got a fair bit of nicely distributed healing (2 heroes with Rit heals, a Smiter with SB and Fallback) and no dedicated healer - that's fine. I'd say convert the Tease Mes to a Monk with a support elite, cut Holy Wrath and take Smiter's Boon for a bit more with little loss (you already have a lot of interrupts). Unfortunately heroes don't use booned smite skills has heals...

With the MB taking Prot and you with SY, you should be in very good shape. A shame that Mark of Pain won't trigger on your attack skills.

Horus Moonlight · Dec 01, 2010, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

P/Mo: I seriously doubt the hero can support the energy demands for that bar. Cut the monk prot, although it's a shame most paragon skills are useless.

I'm not so worried about the energy, I've run prot on a para hero before w/o energy issues. Chalk it up to stubbornness but I just can't cut the para from the build. I might change it to some expel hexes variant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

N/Rt: The elite sucks, but you know that. I question the value of Weaken Armour and would look at Enfeebling Blood instead. Not sure on Spirit Rift, but damage is damage. A possible elite is Pain of Disenchantment, depending on your Curses spec.

I honestly think spirit rift is fine and I only brought weaken armor to support myself (and I guess the minions lol). I wonder if heroes use Spirit Rift as a means to apply cracked armor (I could micro this but I want the team build to be set and forget). I wouldn't bring PoD into PvE; any situation I could see it being useful, I could just as easily use rend and keep my elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Me/Mo: I question Holy Wrath. I do not know how useful this skill is and how well heroes use it. However, you have three energy management skills on this bar, one of which is elite. With only two 10 energy skills, neither spammable, this seems like overkill. I would consider changing the elite and maybe changing the char to a Monk for Divine Favour (and Smiter's Boon).

Never used holy wrath before either. I only added it because I couldn't think of any other useful smiting skills to use on a x/Mo. I want to keep the primary Me though for Tease (or change it PI).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

N/Mo(/X): A hero MM with Bone Minions but without Death Nova? Foul Feast is questionable when you have two copies of MBaS with spirits. Stick Prot Spirit and Aegis on this guy and cut Putrid Bile in favour of Death Nova. I'm someone who thinks you should keep BotM on a hero MM, regardless of the intent for the minions.

This entire bar was a blond moment on my part. I'm definitely going to change it (replacing Putrid with Nova, dropping FF/IC for PS/Aegis, etc.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Rt/X: Soothing Memories is of questionable worth - energy on SoS rit heroes is fine with Siphon and it's the weakest heal on the bar. Bloodsong would be a nice addition and possibly a second copy of Splinter Weapon. This template is also a candidate for a res if you think you can spare the room.

I'm still up in the air about removing soothing memories. If I do, Bloodsong, Rejuvenation, or Splinter will take its place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Mo/Me: Pretty much fine, although I would look for inherenet energy management rather than speccing into Inspiration (so you're not cutting DF too much). This is unfortunatly rather limited - Castigation Signet is all I can think of off the top of my head. With high DF I'd also be tempted by Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight.
The elite on this bar is somewhat variable - hero use of RoJ is far from perfect and it's not important damage. RoJ is certainly quite an energy drain - you'll need to experiment a little here.

I find the trade-off of lowered DF worth it for 2 rupts. I honestly don't know whether leech/pdrain vs. castigation signet is better in terms of energy nor do I care to calculate it right now. I avoided Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight as I thought that would be overkill healing wise. Tahlk has yet to have energy problems due to RoJ, though she has used it oddly before.

I'm not particularly serious about this build. It started out first as a build to use as many of my underused heroes as possible (hence the para. It had a sin, para, and ranger too but I honestly couldn't build something that wasn't fail on them). It's slowly morphing back into a build for my staple heroes.

Pyrthas · Dec 01, 2010, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xx_Sorin_xX

I'm not partial to the Barrager at all, but I just am not a big fan of SoGM or Ineptitude. I'll probably end up defaulting to SoGM/ST though if nothing better is presented.

See, that's where I just throw another RoJ into the mix. How could it possibly go wrong?

FoxBat · Dec 01, 2010, 03:32 AM // 03:32

2 zero recharge adrenaline shouts under an adrenal buff do in fact equal infinite energy. The monk stuff is fine as long as you can handle the atts.

Xx_Sorin_xX · Dec 01, 2010, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrthas

See, that's where I just throw another RoJ into the mix. How could it possibly go wrong?

Hmm this might be a good call. Either way, I'm so ready for this update to try all the different build options.

spray04 · Dec 01, 2010, 05:30 AM // 05:30

After a few more weeks of playing and testing here's my revised edition:

NerfHerder · Dec 01, 2010, 07:22 AM // 07:22

I have been messing around with a SF caster spike build, just for fun.

SF caster spike alternate.

jot. · Dec 07, 2010, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Here's what I've put together, criticism/feedback welcome:

Dzjudz · Dec 07, 2010, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Your Monk has only one spell over 5e, aegis for 10e. GoLE is wasted energy management, since the hero won't even know to use it with Aegis, wasting it on 5e skills. This nets you 5e energy every 30 sec if he casts glyph on recharge. It's a pretty bad energy management skill on monk heroes (on players it's much better). I don't really see why you have prot on the monk bar, you already have 2 aegis in the party. I'd change it to 8 inspiration and put in 2 energy management skills from that (p-drain, leech signet, wnwn, etc)